Should the Bengals take a Page From OSU?

[Guest Spor_tees]

I was thinking about this last night, that if the Bengals are content on not having a pass catching TE, why not put Koistra out on the field as a 3rd tackle in some unbalanced line formations? Ohio State runs it a lot and they are able to have some luck with it. Koistra would have to be a better blocker than any TE on the Bengal's roster. Especially if as many think, he might be Willie's eventual replacement. You don't see the unbalance line in the NFL much, except in goal line situations, but with the Bengals awesome set of recivers it might be a good curve ball to throw at opposing teams.

[Jason]

They used to do that a lot with Orlando Pace and Korey Stringer. They also used a tackle as a TE against Meatchicken with great success this past season.

Several years ago I had a game called PlayMaker Football that let you design your own teams and plays, and that was one of my better running plays.

I would like to see it.

[TheBZ]

[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224056' date='Feb 28 2006, 09:52 AM']I was thinking about this last night, that if the Bengals are content on not having a pass catching TE, why not put Koistra out on the field as a 3rd tackle in some unbalanced line formations? Ohio State runs it a lot and they are able to have some luck with it. Koistra would have to be a better blocker than any TE on the Bengal's roster. Especially if as many think, he might be Willie's eventual replacement. You don't see the unbalance line in the NFL much, except in goal line situations, but with the Bengals awesome set of recivers it might be a good curve ball to throw at opposing teams.[/quote]

Wasn't Brat's quote that for the zone blitz, you have to keep them guessing and changing assignments on them? It could be useful there...But it also seems like a way to get burned at times.

BZ

[-GoBengals-]

in college, 90%+ of the goons across the line will never see the nfl, in the nfl, they are all starters in the nfl, you cant toss in another tackle and know your running, this is the NFL, college sucks, almost all college football players suck. thats like saying we should try the option in the nfl, unless you want your QB to die in week 2, its not wise. college and pro offenses and gameplans are two different mosters, every college team has an obvious weakness on defense or offense, and can be focused on, a good blocking TE is all you need, and we have that, is a nother tackle going to block better than a good blocking TE? no, is a tackle going to maybe break loose and catch a pass? no.

the only time that might be handy, is if you have a really shitty te, which isnt the case. we have good blocking TE's and good receiving TE's. but not quite both in the same player.

i dont think this would work in any way.

[Guest Spor_tees]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='224462' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:12 PM']in college, 90%+ of the goons across the line will never see the nfl, in the nfl, they are all starters in the nfl, you cant toss in another tackle and know your running, this is the NFL, college sucks, almost all college football players suck. thats like saying we should try the option in the nfl, unless you want your QB to die in week 2, its not wise. college and pro offenses and gameplans are two different mosters, every college team has an obvious weakness on defense or offense, and can be focused on, a good blocking TE is all you need, and we have that, is a nother tackle going to block better than a good blocking TE? no, is a tackle going to maybe break loose and catch a pass? no.

the only time that might be handy, is if you have a really shitty te, which isnt the case. we have good blocking TE's and good receiving TE's. but not quite both in the same player.

i dont think this would work in any way.[/quote]


The Bengals used to play some unbalanced line formations back in the day when Melvin Tuten would play the extra tackle. To say all the players in the NFL are too good to fall into the traps the problems of this formation bring, shouldn't those same players be too smart to fall for double passes and WR end around passes?

Well we know they do fall for those plays...in fact we know that first hand.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224468' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:22 PM'][quote name='GoBengals' post='224462' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:12 PM']
in college, 90%+ of the goons across the line will never see the nfl, in the nfl, they are all starters in the nfl, you cant toss in another tackle and know your running, this is the NFL, college sucks, almost all college football players suck. thats like saying we should try the option in the nfl, unless you want your QB to die in week 2, its not wise. college and pro offenses and gameplans are two different mosters, every college team has an obvious weakness on defense or offense, and can be focused on, a good blocking TE is all you need, and we have that, is a nother tackle going to block better than a good blocking TE? no, is a tackle going to maybe break loose and catch a pass? no.

the only time that might be handy, is if you have a really shitty te, which isnt the case. we have good blocking TE's and good receiving TE's. but not quite both in the same player.

i dont think this would work in any way.[/quote]


The Bengals used to play some unbalanced line formations back in the day when Melvin Tuten would play the extra tackle. To say all the players in the NFL are too good to fall into the traps the problems of this formation bring, shouldn't those same players be too smart to fall for double passes and WR end around passes?

Well we know they do fall for those plays...in fact we know that first hand.


[/quote]



yes, trick plays and adding a tackle are the exact same thing.

you have seen nfl games correct? college games?

how is having an extra tackle "falling for" something... unless you got michael vick and are gonna fake pitch and bootleg around the other side.. it gets you no where, the lb's and DB's are too fast and catch up to quick to compensate for any "advantage" this may give you. how often is a player in the nfl tackled by one guy and one guy only..? almost never.. maybe you get an extra half yard or even 2-3 yards on occasion, but your taking away a variable which takes a LB off the ball to cover a potential TE breaking into a pass route. its one less guy the defensive backfield has to account for.defensive assignments are far more detailed and intense than college, college football basically is a contest of who can out "athlete" the other team.. and those athletes who succeed, get to go play real football.

i dont think the offensive scheme that allowed OSU to triumph over southern eastern missouri a & t state in the vagina bowl really holds any water in the nfl.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

Go-Bengals was just handing out pwned tickets and apparently Sportees got two.

[Guest Spor_tees]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='224470' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:30 PM'][quote name='Spor_tees' post='224468' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:22 PM']
[quote name='GoBengals' post='224462' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:12 PM']
in college, 90%+ of the goons across the line will never see the nfl, in the nfl, they are all starters in the nfl, you cant toss in another tackle and know your running, this is the NFL, college sucks, almost all college football players suck. thats like saying we should try the option in the nfl, unless you want your QB to die in week 2, its not wise. college and pro offenses and gameplans are two different mosters, every college team has an obvious weakness on defense or offense, and can be focused on, a good blocking TE is all you need, and we have that, is a nother tackle going to block better than a good blocking TE? no, is a tackle going to maybe break loose and catch a pass? no.

the only time that might be handy, is if you have a really shitty te, which isnt the case. we have good blocking TE's and good receiving TE's. but not quite both in the same player.

i dont think this would work in any way.[/quote]


The Bengals used to play some unbalanced line formations back in the day when Melvin Tuten would play the extra tackle. To say all the players in the NFL are too good to fall into the traps the problems of this formation bring, shouldn't those same players be too smart to fall for double passes and WR end around passes?

Well we know they do fall for those plays...in fact we know that first hand.


[/quote]



yes, trick plays and adding a tackle are the exact same thing.

you have seen nfl games correct? college games?

how is having an extra tackle "falling for" something... unless you got michael vick and are gonna fake pitch and bootleg around the other side.. it gets you no where, the lb's and DB's are too fast and catch up to quick to compensate for any "advantage" this may give you. how often is a player in the nfl tackled by one guy and one guy only..? almost never.. maybe you get an extra half yard or even 2-3 yards on occasion, but your taking away a variable which takes a LB off the ball to cover a potential TE breaking into a pass route. its one less guy the defensive backfield has to account for.defensive assignments are far more detailed and intense than college, college football basically is a contest of who can out "athlete" the other team.. and those athletes who succeed, get to go play real football.

i dont think the offensive scheme that allowed OSU to triumph over southern eastern missouri a & t state in the vagina bowl really holds any water in the nfl.
[/quote]


It's not always what play you run...sometimes it's just a formation that confuses a defense that throws them out of whack. I don't think many teams worried this past year about us throwing to the TE anyway. How many catches did all of our TE combined have? So you don't take the time to look that up, the number is [b]37[/b]. That is a joke. If we have fast WR's, plan on making the running game an important part of our offense, and RARELY throw to the TE anyway, why not run a few plays a game with an unbalanced line? Koistra is supposed to be good enough to someday take Willie's place, so he should be good enough to be an extra tackle on occassion.

Damn you let your biased attitude towards Ohio State cloud your thoughts. I HATE Ohio State, but I can see how that formation could come in handy with our offense.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224472' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:38 PM'][quote name='GoBengals' post='224470' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:30 PM']
[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224468' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:22 PM']
[quote name='GoBengals' post='224462' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:12 PM']
in college, 90%+ of the goons across the line will never see the nfl, in the nfl, they are all starters in the nfl, you cant toss in another tackle and know your running, this is the NFL, college sucks, almost all college football players suck. thats like saying we should try the option in the nfl, unless you want your QB to die in week 2, its not wise. college and pro offenses and gameplans are two different mosters, every college team has an obvious weakness on defense or offense, and can be focused on, a good blocking TE is all you need, and we have that, is a nother tackle going to block better than a good blocking TE? no, is a tackle going to maybe break loose and catch a pass? no.

the only time that might be handy, is if you have a really shitty te, which isnt the case. we have good blocking TE's and good receiving TE's. but not quite both in the same player.

i dont think this would work in any way.[/quote]


The Bengals used to play some unbalanced line formations back in the day when Melvin Tuten would play the extra tackle. To say all the players in the NFL are too good to fall into the traps the problems of this formation bring, shouldn't those same players be too smart to fall for double passes and WR end around passes?

Well we know they do fall for those plays...in fact we know that first hand.


[/quote]



yes, trick plays and adding a tackle are the exact same thing.

you have seen nfl games correct? college games?

how is having an extra tackle "falling for" something... unless you got michael vick and are gonna fake pitch and bootleg around the other side.. it gets you no where, the lb's and DB's are too fast and catch up to quick to compensate for any "advantage" this may give you. how often is a player in the nfl tackled by one guy and one guy only..? almost never.. maybe you get an extra half yard or even 2-3 yards on occasion, but your taking away a variable which takes a LB off the ball to cover a potential TE breaking into a pass route. its one less guy the defensive backfield has to account for.defensive assignments are far more detailed and intense than college, college football basically is a contest of who can out "athlete" the other team.. and those athletes who succeed, get to go play real football.

i dont think the offensive scheme that allowed OSU to triumph over southern eastern missouri a & t state in the vagina bowl really holds any water in the nfl.
[/quote]


It's not always what play you run...sometimes it's just a formation that confuses a defense that throws them out of whack. I don't think many teams worried this past year about us throwing to the TE anyway. How many catches did all of our TE combined have? So you don't take the time to look that up, the number is [b]37[/b]. That is a joke. If we have fast WR's, plan on making the running game an important part of our offense, and RARELY throw to the TE anyway, why not run a few plays a game with an unbalanced line? Koistra is supposed to be good enough to someday take Willie's place, so he should be good enough to be an extra tackle on occassion.

Damn you let your biased attitude towards Ohio State cloud your thoughts. I HATE Ohio State, but I can see how that formation could come in handy with our offense.



[/quote]


my ohio state feelings have nothing to do with this, in fact i likely went to more ohi ostate games than 99% of the osu fans on the board last year. very little from any college playbook or technique is useful in the nfl. its like using MS paint to enter a photoshop contest.

[Guest Spor_tees]

[quote]my ohio state feelings have nothing to do with this, in fact i likely went to more ohi ostate games than 99% of the osu fans on the board last year. very little from any college playbook or technique is useful in the nfl. its like using MS paint to enter a photoshop contest.[/quote]


Yep, you are right, smash mouth football has no place in the NFL.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224476' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:49 PM'][quote]my ohio state feelings have nothing to do with this, in fact i likely went to more ohi ostate games than 99% of the osu fans on the board last year. very little from any college playbook or technique is useful in the nfl. its like using MS paint to enter a photoshop contest.[/quote]


Yep, you are right, smash mouth football has no place in the NFL.
[/quote]

adding a tackle is smash mouth football?

get a life.

[Guest Spor_tees]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='224479' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:55 PM'][quote name='Spor_tees' post='224476' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:49 PM']
[quote]my ohio state feelings have nothing to do with this, in fact i likely went to more ohi ostate games than 99% of the osu fans on the board last year. very little from any college playbook or technique is useful in the nfl. its like using MS paint to enter a photoshop contest.[/quote]


Yep, you are right, smash mouth football has no place in the NFL.
[/quote]

adding a tackle is smash mouth football?

get a life.
[/quote]


Comparing NFL Football to a photoshop contest?

If that was true BJ could be a Pro-Bowl QB.

Get a Life.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224481' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:59 PM'][quote name='GoBengals' post='224479' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:55 PM']
[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224476' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:49 PM']
[quote]my ohio state feelings have nothing to do with this, in fact i likely went to more ohi ostate games than 99% of the osu fans on the board last year. very little from any college playbook or technique is useful in the nfl. its like using MS paint to enter a photoshop contest.[/quote]


Yep, you are right, smash mouth football has no place in the NFL.
[/quote]

adding a tackle is smash mouth football?

get a life.
[/quote]


Comparing NFL Football to a photoshop contest?

Get a Life.
[/quote]

wow, you cant even defend your own ignorant rants, only follow them with more, baseless rants. and then resport to changing the topic all together. and then trying to put down a perfectly logical anology, with the exact sentence i just wrote. stop wasting everyones time, i disagreed with your fucking idea. you couldnt back it up, and now your being a bitch.

stop or leave.

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='224482' date='Mar 1 2006, 12:02 AM'][quote name='Spor_tees' post='224481' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:59 PM']
[quote name='GoBengals' post='224479' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:55 PM']
[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224476' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:49 PM']
[quote]my ohio state feelings have nothing to do with this, in fact i likely went to more ohi ostate games than 99% of the osu fans on the board last year. very little from any college playbook or technique is useful in the nfl. its like using MS paint to enter a photoshop contest.[/quote]


Yep, you are right, smash mouth football has no place in the NFL.
[/quote]

adding a tackle is smash mouth football?

get a life.
[/quote]


Comparing NFL Football to a photoshop contest?

Get a Life.
[/quote]

wow, you cant even defend your own ignorant rants, only follow them with more, baseless rants. and then resport to changing the topic all together. and then trying to put down a perfectly logical anology, with the exact sentence i just wrote. stop wasting everyones time, i disagreed with your fucking idea. you couldnt back it up, and now your being a bitch.

stop or leave.
[/quote]

[Guest Spor_tees]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='224482' date='Mar 1 2006, 12:02 AM'][quote name='Spor_tees' post='224481' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:59 PM']
[quote name='GoBengals' post='224479' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:55 PM']
[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224476' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:49 PM']
[quote]my ohio state feelings have nothing to do with this, in fact i likely went to more ohi ostate games than 99% of the osu fans on the board last year. very little from any college playbook or technique is useful in the nfl. its like using MS paint to enter a photoshop contest.[/quote]


Yep, you are right, smash mouth football has no place in the NFL.
[/quote]

adding a tackle is smash mouth football?

get a life.
[/quote]


Comparing NFL Football to a photoshop contest?

Get a Life.
[/quote]

wow, you cant even defend your own ignorant rants, only follow them with more, baseless rants. and then resport to changing the topic all together. and then trying to put down a perfectly logical anology, with the exact sentence i just wrote. stop wasting everyones time, i disagreed with your fucking idea. you couldnt back it up, and now your being a bitch.

stop or leave.
[/quote]


Awww because I don't agree with you and your analogy of photoshop with football you get mad and insult. How sweet! Ohio State had one of the best running teams in college football and because you don't like them, you shoot down the idea of running a few plays a game with an unbalanced line. I didn't say run the entire game with an unbalanced line, I said a few plays. Running an unbalanced line with the Bengals does a few things. First it allows us to bring in a better blocker than our TE's. Second it will draw up the safety in the box and open up the deep routes for our WR's. Lastly, it puts someone with more size on the DE of the league instead of our smaller TE's. And since we hardly EVER throw to our TE's, we aren't suprising teams much.

You crack me up so much, that you think some of your rants makes sense and when someone challenges your position all you can do is start trying to degregate people. Sounds like the defense strategy of a self-concious person that thrives on the power of being Forum Administrator. Maybe we should change that to Forum Menstrator?

[|Bunghole|]

The only page the bengals should take from OSU is winning a championship.....

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224489' date='Mar 1 2006, 12:13 AM'][quote name='GoBengals' post='224482' date='Mar 1 2006, 12:02 AM']
[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224481' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:59 PM']
[quote name='GoBengals' post='224479' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:55 PM']
[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224476' date='Feb 28 2006, 11:49 PM']
[quote]my ohio state feelings have nothing to do with this, in fact i likely went to more ohi ostate games than 99% of the osu fans on the board last year. very little from any college playbook or technique is useful in the nfl. its like using MS paint to enter a photoshop contest.[/quote]


Yep, you are right, smash mouth football has no place in the NFL.
[/quote]

adding a tackle is smash mouth football?

get a life.
[/quote]


Comparing NFL Football to a photoshop contest?

Get a Life.
[/quote]

wow, you cant even defend your own ignorant rants, only follow them with more, baseless rants. and then resport to changing the topic all together. and then trying to put down a perfectly logical anology, with the exact sentence i just wrote. stop wasting everyones time, i disagreed with your fucking idea. you couldnt back it up, and now your being a bitch.

stop or leave.
[/quote]


Awww because I don't agree with you and your analogy of photoshop with football you get mad and insult. How sweet! Ohio State had one of the best running teams in college football and because you don't like them, you shoot down the idea of running a few plays a game with an unbalanced line. I didn't say run the entire game with an unbalanced line, I said a few plays. Running an unbalanced line with the Bengals does a few things. First it allows us to bring in a better blocker than our TE's. Second it will draw up the safety in the box and open up the deep routes for our WR's. Lastly, it puts someone with more size on the DE of the league instead of our smaller TE's. And since we hardly EVER throw to our TE's, we aren't suprising teams much.

You crack me up so much, that you think some of your rants makes sense and when someone challenges your position all you can do is start trying to degregate people. Sounds like the defense strategy of a self-concious person that thrives on the power of being Forum Administrator. Maybe we should change that to Forum Menstrator?
[/quote]



good one.

once again, your vagina flare up has you looking stupid and us not having to deal with you until you change your internet service provider and sneak back in under a different name.

as i pointed out the first time you threw your trucks down, less than 1% of the members here have ever been banned or suspended, so you being part of that 1%, is hardly my fault. nothing like being grouped with steelers fans trolls and psychopaths eh?

i will give you about 10 minutes to read this, then the site will "go down" for you... dont worry, its just you.

i know the middletown SEEMS like a big place to you. but the world doesnt revolve around you. im sure youll fancy up some way to pass time, catchy t shirts, using hats as fine art, etc.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[center][b]PWNED![/b]

[img]http://www.rofl.name/owned/owned_cat_gun.jpg[/img][/center]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Spor_tees' post='224489' date='Mar 1 2006, 12:13 AM']First it allows us to bring in a better blocker than our TE's. Second it will draw up the safety in the box and open up the deep routes for our WR's. Lastly, it puts someone with more size on the DE of the league instead of our smaller TE's. And since we hardly EVER throw to our TE's, we aren't suprising teams much.[/quote]
It has been pointed out to you that just because putting a OT in for a TE guarantees more beefcake on the line than usual (which is why the unbalanced line is used in the NFL almost exclusively for a goal line push situation), it doesn't guarantee defensive confusion or success.
Who do you think the TE blocks? OLB's, mostly, and occasionally a speedy DB blitzing from the corner or maybe a DE. Backup OT's don't have the speed to manage the blitzing of faster, more athletic defensive players, for the most part, which is why more athletic TE's are usually asked to do this, which is what the Bengals do.
While I'm all for using unusual play formations to create mismatches and confusion on the opposing teams defenses, I don't think this would be all that beneficial on passing plays, as the backup OT likely will have a speedy pass rusher run right by or around him.
Maybe we could use somethig like this in an obvious, non-goal line situation, where we're baring our teeth for a yard and challenge the defense to stop us even though they know we're going to run it up the gut, etc....

[Guest BengalBacker]

[Kool Keith]

The Patriots use an unbalanced line quite often - though, it's is almost exclusively in the red zone.

Spor tees, you are correct about one thing - as of now, our TE production sometimes makes it seem like we are playing 10 on 11. I'm not sure it's a TE problem though, I think it's more about scheme, play calling, and the fact that we are so strong at virtually every other offensive position on the field.

We could definitely get away with sneaking in Koositra, Chia-Pet, or Bluto or hell, maybe even one of our under achiever DT projects in to help push on the goalline for Rudi. We've done this before too people - remember the ol' "# so-and-so is reporting as an eligible reciever" on 3 yardline?

It seems the OSU bad blood runs deep around here...

[Guest ThurmanMunster]

i wish u didnt ban sportees i get a kick out of laughing at him...

[|Lucid|]

Sure... It's called a "Big" or "Goalline" set in some offenses..

There is nothing unique about using an extra guard/tackle etc in pure running situations... Short and such, where it doesn't matter if you telegraph the run...

And then you have Sapp catching a TD....

Not a "common" set, but not "rare" either.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='224516' date='Mar 1 2006, 02:09 AM']i wish u didnt ban sportees i get a kick out of laughing at him... [/quote]


He got banned or suspended ?


I didn`t see much cause for either though...

[Guest Bengals1181]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='224565' date='Mar 1 2006, 08:32 AM'][quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='224516' date='Mar 1 2006, 02:09 AM']
i wish u didnt ban sportees i get a kick out of laughing at him... [/quote]


He got banned or suspended ?


I didn`t see much cause for either though...
[/quote]


ditto.